98b accuracy ?

Medium Caliber, Bolt Action Precision Rifle

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johnhowerter
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Re: 98b accuracy ?

Postby johnhowerter » Tue 14 Jan, 2014 7:01 pm

I had a conversation with the barrett people and they said that one minute of angle was their unofficial standard. My rifle does shoot one minute of angle or slightly over that. I was told they would put a new barrel on it for a little over a thousand but it may or may not shoot better. I told them that most rifles in that price range in the 338 caliber have a half moa guarantee. They recommended that if I need that kind of accuracy that maybe I should get a rifle from one of those manufactures, which I already did. I received my AX338 in july and it shoots in the .3's. I really like the 98B design and it is about 5 pounds lighter than the AX, but a rifle that is meant to shoot that far has to shoot small groups or it defeats the purpose of a long range cartridge. Barrett did say that the MRAD does shoot better than the 98B. So now I have a 338 for large objects at long range and one for small objects at long range. The people at Barrett were very nice they just made a really cool rifle that may or may not impress the shooter. Would I buy another Barrett 338? probably if they had a half moa guarantee.
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Re: 98b accuracy ?

Postby RangeRat » Wed 15 Jan, 2014 7:01 am

What ammo are you using in the 98B?
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johnhowerter
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Re: 98b accuracy ?

Postby johnhowerter » Wed 15 Jan, 2014 11:50 am

Rangerat, I have tried 250 and 300 grainers from sierra Berger and Lapua, 225 Barnes, 285 Hornady as well as a few factory loads from Hornady and Black hills. some of my earlier post go into more detail of what I have tried and the results.
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Re: 98b accuracy ?

Postby shotgun » Wed 15 Jan, 2014 10:11 pm

And I was just getting ready to order a 98B, Glad I waited. 1 moa is what you expect from rifles costing 1/2 as much and it is completely unacceptable! I have seen a few sub .5 moa 98B's, in fact all the Barrett .338s I see at matches shoot at least that good- but with my luck I would get stuck with one like yours again and it appears with no remedy. seriously, what good is a rifle in a caliber capable of shooting 2000+ yards if you can't hit anything with it ? That is why I got rid of my 110BA. The MRAD advertised accuracy is .6 moa, that is what I would consider to be the minimum standard for a rifle in the .338LM caliber, but at the cost of the MRAD , I would want a little better. I saw a .300WM semi-auto that was guaranteed sub moa accuracy for thousands less, I would step down to that caliber for the semi-auto and 14rd magazine before I would buy another Bolt gun with accuracy worse than .5moa. Most of the .338LM Barrett owners on here are way under .5 so we know the rifles are capable and I am shocked they would not try to get yours shooting better at no cost to you. I can only imagine what goes into building and guaranteeing a .5moa rifle and all the hassles associated with selling them,but that is why we pay so much for one, right? I have one Barrett and it is my most favorite gun I own it does exactly what I need it to and I have 0 complaints it way exceeded my expectations. Maybe I should not push my luck. I might be ordering that NEMO Watchman after all. :cheer:
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johnhowerter
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Re: 98b accuracy ?

Postby johnhowerter » Sun 19 Jan, 2014 6:35 pm

I got the 98B out over the weekend and decided to try some 250's. I started with some seconds I had got from midway. I have a bunch of them so I hoped they might shoot good. I was using vhit 165 and the groups were around 1 moa. I tried the same powder charge with 250 Bergers and Scenars both were shooting consistent groops. I would shoot a three shot group with one bullet then a group with the other bullet then repeat . So basically I was shooting six shot groups just not all in a row. The groups were just under 1 moa at 100 yds. I moved out to 780 yards, which is as far as I can get right at my house. The groups at 780 were in the five to six inch range. I am beginning to think 1 in 10 twist is too slow for the 300 grain bullets. I will have to try a little more experimenting with the 250's. I would much rather carry the 98B hunting than the AX338, 5 pounds is a big difference.
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Re: 98b accuracy ?

Postby shane1 » Sat 01 Feb, 2014 8:08 pm

My 98b shoots 300's as good or better then 250's. H1000 or retumbo. They should have replaced your barrel at no cost. Factory ammo didn't give me equal results to hand loads. Factory ranged between .7 and 1 moa. Hand loads I've shot a best of a little over an inch at 600 yards, that same load prints close to .5 moa at 100. I've found group shooting at 100 with a lapua a complete waste of time, loads that print .7 to 1 moa at a 100 usually print the same at 200 or even 300. In my smaller caliber weapons 1'' at 100 would equal 6 at 600, I don't find that to be the case with the lapua , seems even yours that groups slightly above average at 100 is closer to 1/2 moa at 780. Moral to story with 338 caliber and larger is don't do load work or accuracy testing at 100 yards, 200 minimum, further is better. At a 100 my 98b would be a .6-.7 moa gun at best at 300 and over 1/4 moa or less is common.
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Re: 98b accuracy ?

Postby shotgun » Sun 02 Feb, 2014 12:07 pm

[quote="shane1"]My 98b shoots 300's as good or better then 250's. H1000 or retumbo. They should have replaced your barrel at no cost.


That's what I'm saying! Every now and again a bad (or in this case a not as good) one slips by. The whole point of a rifle chambered in this caliber is to shoot very long ranges and it all starts with load development(or factory experimentation) and tiny groups at closer ranges. Some people believe that a bullets trajectory could group say 2"@100yds and then shrink back to 1-1/2 @ 300yds- not possible Unless your bbl is capable of shooting "curve bullets". It is however possible to shoot a 2" @100yds and 2 and a fraction" @ 600yds thus giving you the 2 moa @100 and .4something moa @ 600yds. Not likely, but possible. On a perfectly calm shooting day I have seen some of my 750 Amax rounds(from my 82a1) tighten the moa up a bit at the extreme ranges but not by much. For the most part if a rifle shoots .5moa @1000 it shoots .5moa(or better) @ 100. When a manufacturer guarantees moa accuracy it is usually at 100 yds. When I had my .338LM rifle I tried the 200yd range for load work up it shot just over 1moa to just under 2 moa and shot the same out at 600 yds (1-2 moa). The rifle was junk and I got rid of it. :cheer:
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johnhowerter
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Re: 98b accuracy ?

Postby johnhowerter » Sun 09 Feb, 2014 8:40 pm

I have heard the old you need to load develop at long range 300 yards or whatever for long range calibers. The first time I ran into this I was loading 180 bergers in my 7mm STW in the late 90,s. the funny thing was after finding the perfect load at 300 or 400 yds the same load would always continue to shoot great at 100 yds usually one ragged hole. My 220 swift shooting 90 grain bergers is the same way. I can put it another way I have never witnessed a rifle shoot an odd shaped or "average" group at 100 yds and then shoot impressive groups at 300 400 or 1000 or any long range. My AX 338 shoots the same MOA at 100 400 or 800. As of lately I have been doing my initial development at 100 to find something promising and then moving out 400 and then the best loads I try again at 780. I really need to ask my neighbor if I can move my backstop 20 yards back into his woods so I can have 800 yds. Another thing I would like to hear some feedback on is the shooters that are getting very impressive groups, what kind of a rest are you using, bipods, sandbags or whatever please go into a little detail if you would.
thanks , John
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Re: 98b accuracy ?

Postby shotgun » Mon 10 Feb, 2014 12:03 pm

For load development I always try to eliminate as many variables as possible. I shoot from a bench or prone using a Caldwell Tack driver rest.I wait for a dead calm period or window of weather. make sure my loads are out of the sun(even with the extreme Hodgon powders). and run a snake after every string and do an actual cleaning as needed so all strings have the same bbl condition. When up camping, and I am shooting at my 8' x 8' target @ 1 mile I am prone and using the Caldwell rest. I have shot the barrett off the bipod at the big target at range and do not get the same groupings, so I know it is me. Once I have my "Load" I practice in all conditions and positions and take lots of notes. We set clay pigeons @ 1000 yds and on a calm morning from the Caldwell rest I will hit 18 in 20 shots with my Panther, Off the bipod or in windy conditions its more like 5 in 20 shots. I just don't think you can practice enough that's why I will shoot around 1500 rds per camping trip. We shoot in wind ,rain and snow just so if you ever have to it is not a totally new experience. I have seen poi change@1000yds with the same scope settings and same calm winds, when a low pressure front and higher humidity moves in the next morning. That is why I take notes, it is rare to dope the scope off your notes and get a first shot hit but I do get really close. Until I can get 20 out of 20 in any condition I won't consider myself a good shot. If you did good on your development and maintain your rifle when you miss you know it is you :rl:
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Re: 98b accuracy ?

Postby johnhowerter » Wed 12 Feb, 2014 1:53 pm

Shotgun, after reading your reply I googled the caldwell tack driver rest and guess what, that is what I've been using. I also took all the "hardware" off both of my 338's and started using my Sinclair front rest. The front bag is adjustable so I tightened it up to so I don't have any side to side wobbling and I have been using this lately. My 250 lock base load that shot good last week is not shooting that great anymore. I really need to give up on this rifle and while I still have some bullets left. I hate to sell the 98b for two reasons. I really prefer it for a hunting gun because it is light weight for what it is and I know if I try to sell it I will be asked how it shoots I won't lie. I wish someone out there could stick a Kreiger barrel in it and make it a half moa gun like it should be. Does anyone out there have any experience with rebarreling the 98B? I read somewhere that Barrett sells a wrench and you can install a new barrel yourself can the Barrett guys answer that thanks.
John
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Re: 98b accuracy ?

Postby Barrett Sales » Wed 12 Feb, 2014 3:12 pm

johnhowerter wrote: Does anyone out there have any experience with rebarreling the 98B? I read somewhere that Barrett sells a wrench and you can install a new barrel yourself can the Barrett guys answer that thanks.
John


The two parts that you need are:
98424- Barrel nut socket for $75
98425- Barrel nut insert for $12.78
Both are in stock. You would have to call in to order as it is not listed on the webstore
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Re: 98b accuracy ?

Postby shotgun » Wed 12 Feb, 2014 8:14 pm

Good thinking on changing to a match barrel, but I would have a gunsmith do the install. Headspace, bedding and whatever other magic that contributes to the accuracy also can have a safety impact especially with a high pressure round as in .338LM. I would think a gunsmith would have(or would get) the appropriate tools. Your eyes are too important to take chances with. Even as simple as it is to change the bbl on my 82, when the time comes I will want a smith/armorer to at least check to make sure everything is ok.
Does Kreiger give that 1/2 moa in writing? :lol: They do seem to have really good stuff and what else can you do at this point?
I had a bad day at the range last week, at least I know it was me and not the rifles(unless something happened to them while they were hanging out in the safe).Man there is nothing more frustrating and it just doesn't get better. I feel it is just best to save the bullets and come back on another day, or head to the pistol berms and let off some steam with DE vs Lettuce heads. :cheer:
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Re: 98b accuracy ?

Postby JDX--- » Mon 17 Feb, 2014 10:57 pm

Barrett Sales wrote:
johnhowerter wrote: Does anyone out there have any experience with rebarreling the 98B? I read somewhere that Barrett sells a wrench and you can install a new barrel yourself can the Barrett guys answer that thanks.
John


The two parts that you need are:
98424- Barrel nut socket for $75
98425- Barrel nut insert for $12.78
Both are in stock. You would have to call in to order as it is not listed on the webstore


You can split the rifle and take out the front cross pin to separate the upper from the lower, then remove your bolt and the sleeve the bolt floats in.

Now mount the upper in a very secure gun vice, caution not to mar up the finish on the upper - you will be applying some good pressure to break the barrel nut loose.

Spin your Brake off, unlock the muzzle brake jam nut to do this. ( the jam nut is locked up against the brake)
Then slide on the sleeve - barrel nut insert- this is used to protect your barrel.
Then slide the nut socket down the barrel to the barrel nut and use a common breaker bar( auto mechanics wrench) for leverage and turn the nut off. You will have to have the 98B in a gun vise to hold it while trying to spin the barrel nut loose.

After you have the barrel nut removed you can use a dead blow hammer or a block of wood and hit the end of the barrel where the brake was located and then the barrel will slide out the back side of the upper, the barrel comes out the back not the front side.

The chamber and barrel are all one machined piece, no head spacing or bedding or custom barrels.
So slide in your new Barrett barrel align the notch to get the barrel positioned correctly tighten down your barrel nut (please check with Barrett but if I remember right torque it to 50 foot pounds) slide off your sleeve and socket spin on the brake jam nut followed by the brake position the brake and lock it down with the jam nut.

Attach the lower with the upper with the front cross pin, slide in the bolt sleeve and your bolt and you should have it.

I have had great accuracy with my 27" running 300 gr. Scenars and H1000 about 50 thousands off the lands, round count 2155 now.


Cheers
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Re: 98b accuracy ?

Postby CliveG » Fri 09 May, 2014 6:06 pm

My 98B has no problem hitting a 10" plate at 1,650 yards 9 out of 10 times using home loads - 250gr Bergers with 88gr of N560. I have a S&B 5-25x56 PM11 with Barrett rings

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